Muslims and Westerners: The Psychological Differences
by Nicolai Sennels (May 2010)
February 27th 2008. On a cold and windy Wednesday (for cyclists like myself), I took a deep breath, grabbed the microphone and did something that changed my life. more>>>
Excellent!!! I wish we ALL can see and understand these facts....every great civilization was destroyed by barbariams!!
1 May 2010 MJL
This author is psychologically astute. I like the frankness of his claim that some cultures are just incompatible, and the way he zeroes in on the most awkward aspects of multicultural life in the west. However I think the most subtle and complete view of these problems sees Islam as a pretext for, not an immediate cause of cultural conflict.
I have worked as a teacher in neighbourhoods where Islamic culture supposedly dominates the hearts and minds of young first- and second-generation immigrants. It seems a surpringly permeable belief system in practice. Bizarre cultural hybrids arise in these areas - Lebanese boys who ape black American gangster-rappers; girls who wear snow-white hijabs but who can fight and scream obscenities with the lowest of their white-trash counterparts. I have also briefly worked in an Islamic country, which is to say a country where an indigenous culture was crushed by invading Islamists some 400 years ago. It was there that I learned just how oppressive the Islamic world is to ordinary people caught in its traces. People fleeing countries such as Afghanistan are, in effect, fleeing Islam, if we believe their murderously violent persecutors when they proclaim themselves the most Muslim of Muslims; but the refugees pray, live and fast as Muslims themselves; they don't consider themselves to be fleeing Islam and they strike me as nice, simple folk for whom family survival and education are the main goals in life.
Sennels is right to define honour codes, tribalism, humourlessness, narcissism and aggression as fundamental forms of psychic weakness. But I think it is unfair to unify human character under the banner of even such an autarchic religion as Islam; in fact there is a distinctly Asian and a distinctly Arabic style of Islamism, and so on around the world where Islam has dominated people's lives. In Malayasia and Indonesia you find a grimly 'try-hard' attitude of the recently converted; in Tunisia a more relaxed style of Islam exists. If anything, the unifying characteristic of countries that are now Muslim is that nearly all began as isolated agrarian slave societies dominated by despotic tribal chiefs. Much more of psychological and behavioural consequence flows from these kinds of facts than from religious beliefs.
Teaching at school I found that Islam became an excuse to express feuding, aggression and exceptionalism that was culturally and age-developmentally normal. It was the metaphysical clothing for the naked emperor of egoism and force majeur. Some cultures just functioned at a higher emotional temperature than others; they tended to be loud, argumentative and aggressive in western eyes whether you considered this behaviour Islamic or not. The worst you could say of the cultural role of Islam was that it attempted to sacralise the otherwise very clearly bestial in human nature.
If that is so, the questions to ask about anything we have called 'bad because Islamic' up till now are, 'Does this behaviour threaten democracy? Does it trample human rights and does it break laws designed to protect people from harm?' By all means be strict about punishing behaviour that answers these affirmatively. But such questions might be asked of behaviour at any time in human history, because of the universality of mental unwellness - the 'insanity of groups that is the rule' in Nietzsche's words. I don't see why it is necessary to single out Islamic groups as especially exceptionalist, aggressive and antidemocratic.
It's Islam as pretext that I see here - it's the latest excuse for abuses that people everywhere and at all times have suffered at the hands of the mentally unbalanced. Sennels' suggestions - clear boundaries, real consequences - would work for anyone regardless of the religious belief they use to excuse their bad behaviour.
2 May 2010 Chezwick
MJL suffers the affliction of so many others, trying to exonerate the distinctly theological nature of the pathologies that afflict the Muslim world. For example, he/she tries to draw a distinction between the Muslim cultural ethos in southeast Asia with that of the Arab world. What he/she fails to recognize is that whatever distinctions that once existed are quickly disappearing; so-called "moderate" Indonesia has seen the killing of thousands of Christians over the last decade...and the persecution of thousands of others, all at the hands of the Muslim mob.
Another false distinction is the laid-back Islam of Tunisia that MJL contrasts with the fanaticism of other countries in the region. What he/she fails to mention is that this is the direct and exclusive result of GOVERNMENT POLICY. The President of Tunisia is a committed secularist, and he has imposed his vision on his country via authoritarian methods. Tunisia would no doubt be a very different country were it not for the vision of a single man.
As for MJL's contention that social pathologies exist in every culture, this is obviously true. In the West for example, sexual freedom has resulted in a high incidence of teen pregnancies and the spread of venereal disease. While we refuse to alter our over-all culture of freedom, we at least acknowledge these pathologies as unwanted side-effects OF freedom, and institute educational and health programs to mitigate them.
Conversely, in the Muslim world, many of the most gruesome social pathologies such as lapidation, amputation, honor killing, child marriage, the murder of apostates, and female genital mutilation (among others), all have their origins in Islamic theology, and therefore are not recognized as social pathologies. Therefore, there is no real impetus to remedy them.
People like MJL are retarding the struggle against Islamic supremacism and intolerance by obfuscating the facts. It is the theological tenets of Islam itself, not some ancillary cause, that perpetuates the pathologies that afflict Muslim (and now Western) societies. This reality necessitates a very specific strategy for dealing with the problem, one that attempts to marginalize Islam in the lives of Muslims. It is a strategy that has yet to be even considered, much less implemented.
4 May 2010 ziggy
Best facts about the muslim community that I´ve ever read. Having visited several muslim countries long before muslims started to pour into our western society, I was shocked when mass immigration by muslims to my own country (Sweden), started to escalate some fifteen/twenty years ago. Seeing now that everything has gone over the top completly, our politicians from every major party, refuse to take action and do something constructive about the mess. Our media is also totally derailed when it comes to adressing the issue and it seems that the police is not better off, since they often refuse to give detailed information to the public about muslim criminals, even if that kind of information probably would help solving many of the often hideous crimes that these particular individuals commit.Everyone knows that it often is hard for even well educated ethnic swedes to get a job and this makes you wonder how someone who
1: Is a devoted muslim.
2: Doesn´t want to be integrated.
3: Has 5 maybe 6 years in school.
4: Doesn´t see the need too learn swedish.
5: Has a view of women, that we left five hundred years ago.
is going to be able to get and hold a job and live happily together with his ethnic swedish countrymen. The last part is of some importance, as we hear all the time that the muslims are here because they are sorely needed in order for the swedish nation to be able to pay the pensions for future generations, but I must say that I have my serious doubts about that.
5 May 2010 Hugh Fitzgerald
is going to be able to get and hold a job and live happily together with his ethnic swedish countrymen. The last part is of some importance, as we hear all the time that the muslims are here because they are sorely needed in order for the swedish nation to be able to pay the pensions for future generations, but I must say that I have my serious doubts about that"
You still have doubts? I have no doubts that allowing Muslims into Sweden will be a terrific expense, that these Muslims cannot possibly integrate, and what they will take out of the system, making sure they receiveevery possible benefit, part of a welfare system that is amazingly generous (and naive), one that was originally created by Swedish voters and taxpayers, for the intended benefit of other Swedes, but now being exploited by Muslim immigrants whose hatred of bid'a (innovation, that is any new or entrepreneurial acitvity on their own part) and their deep inshallah-fatalism, guarantees they will economically fall immediately behind, so that they will always havee far higher rates of employment.
Meanwhile, their wives, one or more, will breed and breed and breed, as Oriana Fallaci famously warned, and you have only to look at the figures about Muslim population growth, all over Western Europe, to see what is going on.
Muslim immigration has to be halted, and then reversed. This can be done, just. But the countries of Western Europe have to turn off the tap, and make their own lands as unwelcome and hostile to Islam, to its practice, and to its adherents (the fact that a handful, in the mental freedom of the West, jettison Islam and so can fit in, is no consolation).
And if Sweden really is so hard up for workers, it can find plenty of non-Muslims from countries all over the world, beginning with Eastern Europe and Russia, and Latin America, and parts of Asia, and can make sure that those who come do not carry, undeclared, in their mental baggage, Islam.
Here is an assertion:
"The large-scale presence of Muslims in the countries of Western Europe has led to a situation, for both the indigenous non-Muslims and for other, non-Muslim immigrants, that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous, than would the case withouit such a a large-scale Muslim presence."
Is there anyone in Western Europe, among the sane, who at this point would disagree? Is there anyone, in Western Europe, among the sane, who would dearly wish, if things could be done all over again, never to have permitted any Muslim immigration in the first place, over the past thirty odd years?
Well, then, there is still time to halt and reverse, halt and reverse. But first people must education themselves about Islam, its texts, tenets, attitudes, atmospherics.
It isn't hard.
9 May 2010 Paul Blaskowicz
The worst you could say of the cultural role of Islam was that it attempted to sacralise the otherwise very clearly bestial in human nature. MJL
MJL: Could one say anything more disgusting about any ideology? This one undeniable truth - though the verb should be in the present tense - demolishes all the rest of your sophisticated argument about a seeming similarity between the ethos and practices of the worlds of the muslims and of the kafirs.
Islam's malignant rule is total, whenever and wherever it is found; that individual muslims may from time to time act contrary to its prescriptions and proscriptions proves nothing but that they are exceptions to that malignant rule.
9 May 2010 Annie Oakley
Quoting MJL..."The worst you could say of the cultural role of Islam was that it attempted to sacralise the otherwise very clearly bestial in human nature." MJL is an apologist for Muslim misbehavior.
I'ver seen Muslim culture first-hand, both as an American soldier and as a law enforcement officer.
The worst I could say about the cultural role of Islam is the cold, hard truth. Islam is a murderous political cult that will accept nothing short of the utter destruction of all non-Muslim societies. It's all there in the koran. I might add that when there are no non-Muslim adversaries around to confront, they have no problem whatsoever turning their homicidal rage upon each other. I suppose they want to keep their skills honed so that they will be prepared the next time they encounter an Infidel.
Islam demands that its followers become "slaves". Well, an ideology that demands slavery as part of its system of beliefs authorizes its stronger members to enslave the weaker members of society. After all, that is the "shining example" that has been set for them.
I don't know about MJL, but I have no intention of becoming anyone's slave.
9 May 2010 Egghead
Nicolai Sennels' article is excellent and easy-to-read.
Islam itself is the problem rather than the pretext for the problem - as has been incorrectly suggested by another commenter. Read the Koran and other Islamic literature like the hadiths.
The ONLY goal of Islam is the forced conversion, rape, enslavement, or killing of the infidel (any non-Muslim). An infidel can NEVER be innocent because the infidel refuses to submit to the immutable UNCHANGEABLE word of God that God revealed to the FINAL prophet Mohammed.
Unfortunately, Mohammed was an illiterate psycho child molester, serial rapist, torturer, and mass murderer with 26 wives (one wife married when she was six years old). But, as the final prophet, Mohammed is viewed as the IDEAL Muslim man to be imitated by other Muslim men.
Bravo! You are speaking truth to power! I have long referred to Islam as a cult, with leaders exercizing life and death power over the religious, and even the non-religious (consider the "Fatwah" sentencing of innocent men to death for the crime of insult). Stoning of "adulterous" women, amputations for thieves, endorsement of murder against infidels - this is Dark Age barbarity in the era of the Internet. And how about "non-violent" muslims - why is their reaction to Islamic crimes so often muted? If they are truly opposed to Islamo-fascism, why don't they start a "New Islamic Way" that utterly and completely denies violence and mysogny, and accepts only the loving and charitable tenets of the Koran? Here's my opinion - the problem with cutting the violence out of the Koran is that you don't even have half a loaf left - just a bunch of banal crumbs that could have been better written by Kahlil Gibran. Anyway, great job, and I'm going to buy your book!
# EuropeNews “Integration of Muslims in Western societies is not possible”: http://europenews.dk/en/node/21789
# The German Review of Books: The one thing Muslim immigrants fear is being deported: http://www.germanbookreview.com/the-one-thing-muslim-immigrants-fear-is-being-deported/
# Interview til Hommaforum: An interview with Nicolai Sennels: http://hommaforum.org/index.php/topic,19459.msg271993.html#msg271993
# Artikel i New English Review: Muslims and Westerners: The psychological differences: http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/63122/sec_id/63122
# Interview i FrontPageMagazine: Among Criminal Muslims: http://frontpagemag.com/2010/05/05/among-criminal-muslims/
14 May 2010 bzbody
I found the article interesting up to a point, but really, it is oversimplifying a complex culture. I am myself not a Muslim, but I have some familiarity with Muslims and Muslim culture relative to India. My own observation is that there are well-brought up children and badly brought up children in all cultures; it is true that some parents lack understanding and wisdom, but I haven't really seen this as being confined to Muslims alone.
As for the blanket statement that Muslim culture (really, all Muslim cultures, everywhere in this wide world?) are lacking an aspect of mocking pomposity and authority, this is simply a matter of the author carelessly generalizing based on very limited knowledge. Children in my part of the world are very familiar with the tales of renegade Mullah Naseeruddin, who makes a point of showing up the high-and-mighty, including religious figures. Muslim kids that I grew up with used to have a lot of fun composing doggerel verses that ridiculed the excessive piety and hypocrisy of the mullahs or religious leaders.
Perhaps the author's view is biased due to exclusive association with the dysfunctional and criminal element; by definition, you can only expect dysfunctionality from them. To be fair, I am not familiar with the issues of Muslim immigrants to Europe, though I imagine that population must be a narrow self-selected slice of the population of their home country.
This should be required reading for every political party and there members. I have finally found solid evidence to support why I think Muslims should not be allowed to immigrate into western society.
6 Jun 2010 Fred
bzbody wrote:
"My own observation is that there are well-brought up children and badly brought up children in all cultures; it is true that some parents lack understanding and wisdom, but I haven't really seen this as being confined to Muslims alone."
I think you failed to understand the main point of the article, which is that the deep principles and values that determine muslims' thinking and acting are different from and incompatible with those of the West.
Yes, there are many many "well-brought up" muslim children, if "well-brought up" is understood in its shallow meaning: not social criminals. Most of the September 11 terrorists were considered well-brought up and well educated until they comitted their crime. Many muslim men are considered well-brought up, and actually behave as well educated people, until they hit, and sometimes kill, their sister or cousin because she has a boyfriend (i.e. has sex without being married).
You can call this "shallow well-bringing up".
Therefore, the point is not whether there are well brought-up muslims or not. The real question is how many of them deeply believe in freedom of speech (including harshly critisizing their religion), in the idea of total equal rights for all humans, whatever is their color, gender, religion (or absence of religion), sexual orientation, etc?
The answer is: only a minority. I grew up among muslims and I have very good friends among them. They are very nice and very helpful. But when it comes to discussing the issues above, I can tell things are different.
1 Jul 2010 Mary
Reading the article by Mr. Sennels and the introduction by Ms. Tobin left me feeling rather sad. I was thinking of the Muslim persons who came under their care. Those clients are in the position of being judged by people who seem unable to see their clients as individuals, those clients are in the position of having to accept something as delicate as psychological help from practitioners who are unable to see them as anything more than a symptom of what they see as the symptom of the dysfunction of Islamic societies. Think of the damage such therapists can wreck. That such people are invited to spread their distorted views as expert advice to law enforcement or to political decision makers is truly terrifying.
Great Book !! In Canada we have the same problem with the integration of muslims. We go to many big cities and we feel we are in the Middle East..they look at us as if we are the ones that dont belong!!! It has gotten out of hand. They dont want to integrate. They will never have respect for the religion, traditions and culture and the women in western societies even though they might say they do!
I lived with a muslim for few years and he always wanted me to convert to Islam. He told me while it was permitted to marry a Christian God prefered that he married a muslim. I told him I would never convert...after he told his family the mother invented false accusations agaist me and I was no longer welcomed in his house, his family and friends started planning his wedding and giving him names of all the poor peasants from his home country who by the way dont even speak english or french.....the men say they have to marry a poor muslim woman that will be thankful for whatever they can give her....the women there are dying to come to rich countries and are desperately comunicating with all friends and siters here to get them a husband...a sort of mail order bride system between friends and family cause they get a dowry and share the profits or make them gifts and are eternally grateful to the people that gets them any guy with a Canadian or American passport!!! ....all of his friends did the same and brought here all this women who now have two, or three kids here..the girls wearing hijabs at an early age to be able to fit in and be respected and be able to marry..if not they can not find a guy with money.....anyhow all the men and women I met were criticizing that women in the west are uncovered and are not as clean and respectable as the muslim women are and they feel superior to all of us because they cover their heads, arms and even their toes during heat waves!!...is sad that all this people with retarded ideas are here criticizing us women and feeling superior to us !!! ...most of them are illeterate or have received limited middle easten education...here they think they are morally superior and even illiterates think they are people of high levels of education to whom we have to seek advice from!!!...To these men and women we are infidels and not worthy of love and compassion and marriage unless we convert.
Please help save the western world and our democratic values! ...We need to pressure our governments which unfortunately are desperate seeking votes and approval and cant see that this people are a threat to our future that they dont integrate and they will keep bringing all their family and uneducated women here..they can have four wives!...they are making sure they will outnumber us in the future... imagine their reproduction rates skyrocketing while we can barely have children to pay for their welfare and in the case of men their unemployment insurance!!
Has the western world gone mad??? I feel betrayed. I thought we were looking for well educated civilized people to come to developed nations to help our economies, not to become a burden and a threat to us! The least they could do is get people that share our our own religions in the majority of the west so that inter marriages and reproduction among us is possible!