Global Persecution of Christians: An International Round Table Discussion
by Jerry Gordon and Mike Bates (June 2014)
with Elisabeth Sabaditsch –Wolff, Rev. Bruce Lieske, Eric Martin and Rabbi Jonathan Hausman
Jay Leno and feminist protesters at Beverly Hills Hotel owned by the Sultan of Brunei who adopted anti-gay, anti-woman Sharia
Source: Getty Images
Brooke Goldstein of The Lawfare Project. See the You Tube video of that segment, here and this Fox News report, “Hillary Fought to keep Boko Haram off the Terrorist List.” The US finally designated Boko Haram leader Abubakir Shekau a “global terrorist” and placed a $7 million bounty on him in December 2013 under Secretary of State John Kerry.
What Leno and the rally protesters didn’t realize is that Sharia may have already intruded in US state court decisions at both the lower and appellate levels. That is reflected in enactment of remedial legislation in seven US States, most recently, in Florida.
Source: The Wall Street Journal
saying it is all about “I enjoy killing anyone that God commands me to kill, the way I enjoy killing chickens and rams.” Ali at the conclusion of her piece noted:
Against this background a special round table discussion was convened by Pensacola-based 1330amWEBY “Your Turn” host Mike Bates and Jerry Gordon, Senior Editor of the New English Review and author of The West Speaks. Our guests were Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff of the Citizens’ Movement Pax Europa from Vienna, Rev. Bruce Lieske of the Prince of Peace Lutheran Church, Orlando, Florida, Eric Martin, co-founder of Americans Against Persecution of Christians in Muslim Countries and Rabbi Jonathan Hausman, spiritual leader of Ahavath Torah Congregation in Stoughton Massachusetts, a noted expert on both Jewish Halacha and Sharia Islamic doctrine.
Wolff and Lieske discussed the May 16th and 17th weekend events held in Orlando, Florida that included a panel discussion of the Global Problem of Christian Persecution on Friday evening, May 16, 2014 and Saturday evening’s torchlight Prayer March Against Persecution of Christians on May 17, 2014. Local organizers for those events were Rev. Lieske and Alan Kornman of the Orlando ACT! For America chapter. Watch this You Tube video of the Orlando Torchlight Prayer March Against Persecution of Christians with an introduction by Rev. Bruce Lieske and interviews by Kornman:
Watch this You Tube video of remarks by Rev. Lieske and Ms. Sabaditsch –Wolff at the Global Problem of Christian Persecution at Orlando Lutheran Prince of Peace Church:
here.
Dallas Protest Rally Speakers, from left to right, Dr. Mark Christian of Global Faith Institute, Ms. Dorrie O’Brien, Walid Shoebat of Rescue Christians, Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch and Pastor Stephen H. Broden of Fair Park Bible Fellowship Center, May 17, 2014
Bates: Good afternoon and welcome to Your Turn. There was a special event in Orlando, May 16th and 17th. We are going to tell you what went on in Orlando. In the studio is Jerry Gordon, Senior Editor of the New English Review and its blog, The Iconoclast. Joining us by telephone from Vienna, Austria is Elisabeth Wolff with Citizens Movement Pax Europa. Elisabeth, welcome
Wolff: Thank you for having me on the show.
Bates: And from Orlando, Reverend Bruce Lieske with Prince of Peace Lutheran church where the events occurred.
Lieske: Glad to be on board.
Four speakers at the Orlando Prayer March on May 17, 2014.
From left ro right, Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, Julie Dass, Sisters of Faith, Valerie Price, ACT! Canada,
Sister Hartune Dogan, Orthodox Syriac nun.
Source: Charles Marteau
Kärntner Strasse which is like 5th Avenue in New York except there are no vehicles that can go on that street. We had very large candles and concluded with an ecumenical service at St. Stephens. The idea arrested me because of its importance and also I thought about what the Jewish community did in late 1970’s and early 1980’s with freeing the immigrants from the Soviet Union. My understanding is that there were many synagogues that had banners, and demonstrations, because they really cared. They were concerned about the Soviet Jews who wanted to emigrate and perhaps go to Israel or some other place. The former Soviet Union government would not let them. I thought to myself, here we have Christians being murdered. There are an estimated 100,000 Christians killed for their faith every year. 100,000 in mostly Muslim dominated countries but also in North Korea and some in China. Why can’t we care? In Christian theology we speak in terms of the body of Messiah. The church consists of many of us. When one part hurts then the other part should hurt too, so we need to do something. My inspiration came from two sources. From what I experienced in Vienna, which Elisabeth invited me to, and the record of what the Jews did during those horrible years of the Soviet Union. So we prayed that God would bless the persecuted Christians. We also prayed for the persecutors as Jesus said.
Lieske: I think it is an accurate summation. There is a strong element of intimidation within Islam and as Islam reaches out to others its intimidation is very strong. I think people in this country are whether they would admit it or not, afraid of Islam even though they do not understand it very well. However, all of those things are in Sharia which is Islamic law.
Gordon: Elisabeth.
Wolff: Sorry to interrupt but may I add something to what Reverend Lieske just said about Islamic law?
Bates: Please do.
Gordon: Elisabeth, you have been in the forefront in Europe through your organization Citizens Movement Pax Europa addressing this. However, a few years ago you were actually prosecuted under Austrian law because you began to give lectures about this. Can you tell our audience about that?
Bates: Well it is very important
Bates: It is very important Elisabeth that we bring this discussion to the public because so many people when you comment on the truth of Islam and Sharia law you are attacked as being Islamophobic and intolerant. All of a sudden the Sultan of Brunei decides he wants to impose Sharia law and all of the leftists which attacked everybody else for criticizing Sharia law are now boycotting the Beverly Hills Hotel.
Bates: Reverend Lieske, what is happening with the Beverly Hills Hotel as it pertains to Sharia law and the Sultan of Brunei?
Lieske: Apparently the Sultan of Brunei owns the Beverly Hills Hotel. Brunei is part of Borneo and he recently officially adopted Sharia, Islamic law, which requires the stoning of people caught in adultery and the stoning of homosexuals. These things are shocking to Hollywood. Apparently Hollywood has awakened to what Islam really is. At least the Sultan of Brunei has advocated adoption of Sharia, so now they are boycotting the Beverly Hills Hotel.
Lieske: I think there have been.
Lieske: Exactly.
Bates: Who were the speakers at the Orlando event that occurred at the Prince of Peace Lutheran Church on May 16th and 17th?
Bates: Was there an event at Prince of Peace on Friday evening May 16th?
Lieske: Yes there was. It was a round table discussion. We have a number of experts including Elisabeth Wolff, and Gabriel Aviles who represented Christians United for Israel (CUFI). That is a wonderful pro-Israel organization that is doing something important: educating Christians and lobbying members of Congress. We feel it is very important not just to bring awareness of the persecution of Christians worldwide but to actually do something about it to exert some pressure on our elected representatives.
Gordon: Elisabeth, can you tell us briefly who were some of the other international representatives who spoke at this event?
Wolff: I already mentioned Sister Hatune Dogan originally from Turkey but who now is a naturalized German citizen. We had Ann Marchini from England who represented the International Civil Liberties Alliance. We had Hendrik Clausen from Denmark who represented the International Andre Sakharov Committee and finally we had Valerie Price who represented ACT for Canada who also talked about the plight of persecuted Christians worldwide.
Bates: Now from Dallas, Texas we are joined by Eric Martin. He is one of the co-founders of Americans Against the Persecution of Christians in Muslim Countries. Eric, Reverend Lieske had mentioned the event that occurred in Dallas on May 17th. What happened?
Martin: We have a coalition of concerned Christians and Jews and we decided that it was time to protest the horrendous persecution against Christians in Muslim countries. We formed a committee, Americans Against the Persecution of Christians in Muslim Countries, and we held a rally in Dallas on Saturday, May 17th at Dallas City Hall Plaza.
Gordon: Eric, who were the prime movers behind this protest rally and who spoke there?
Coalition of Afro American Pastors. There are over 3,000 members in that coalition. He was one of the main speakers. We had his son William Owens Jr., Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch, very well known for his blog and also his outspoken criticism of Islamic atrocities. We had Walid Shoebat of Rescue Christians. Bishop John Iker, the Anglican Bishop of Fort Worth fully supported what we are doing. In fact he delegated Father Kingsley Jon-Ubabuco, a Nigerian Priest, who spoke at the rally. We also had an Egyptian Pastor Dr. Mark Christian of Global Faith Institute of Omaha, Nebraska and Sam Ghobeiti of Iran Alive Ministries. My good friend Jeffrey Epstein of America’s Truth Forum also spoke.
Martin: Yes.
Gordon: You have a rather unique experience in your own personal background as a motivating factor when you were, many years ago, an activist student at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland.
Martin: Yes.
Bates: Eric, how much of this conflict is over land, oil and political power versus how much of this conflict is religious in nature?
Martin: It is predominantly a religious conflict between the Muslim Nigerians versus the Christian and Animist populations of Nigeria. Politically of course, you know the parties in Nigeria follow along religious lines. With regards to geography the predominant Muslim power wants it all. Thus, it is all related to religion. This Boko Haram atrocity against the mainly Christian girls is simply a continuation of what went on in the Biafra war.
Martin: Yes. This is par for the course.
Gordon: In addition to that there was a Breitbart Report by Dr. Phyllis Chesler who indicated that based on her knowledge and research that these unfortunate girls have probably already been gang raped, brutalized and will live in massive suffering.
Martin: Yes. That is only to be expected because we are dealing here with Islamic barbarians.
Bates: Very much so. We appreciate you joining us. Eric Martin, is there a website for Americans Against the Persecution of Christians in Muslim Countries?
Bates: And what is the website?
Martin: Persecution of Christians.com
Bates: Joining us by telephone is Rabbi Jonathan Hausman. He is with Ahavath Torah Congregation in Stoughton, Massachusetts and he is also an expert on Islam having studied the Quran in Cairo, Egypt. Welcome to the program Rabbi Hausman.
Hausman: Thank you.
Bates: Let me ask you this question. How much of a threat is Islam to the world? Is it exaggerated by those who claim that there is a problem? What do you think?
Bates: Well, then you must be a hatemonger.
Gordon: Rabbi, there are certain aspects of Islamic doctrine that allow them to get away with this notion of expressing it as a religion of peace. They are known in Arabic as the concepts of Taqiyya and Kitman.
Hausman: Right.
Gordon: What are they?
Bates: It is only a fellow Muslim?
Hausman: Yes, and even then there are restrictions that are placed on it. For example if you take a look at the Qur’an, if you take the 16th Sura, verse 106 for example, the Qur’an establishes that there are circumstances that can compel a Muslim to tell a lie. Then there are the Muslim commentators like Bukhari who take this concept and expand upon it. Bukhari states that one who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things is not a liar. So in other words the ends justify the means.
I think that there is something more fundamental going on as well. It seems that the more attenuated the connection Jews have to the corpus of our traditions, rabbinic learning, the more apt somebody who was Jewish is likely to replace that learning with this false sense that liberal politics is the same as Jewish tradition. If you study Jewish tradition, the corpus of Jewish tradition, that it is not predisposed towards liberal politics. Jerry, you may want to jump in on this as well.
Gordon: There is a famous conservative commentator, Norman Podhoretz who wrote a book about this.
Hausman: Yes, Why Are Jews Liberal is the title.
Gordon: That is correct. He also said when I interviewed him that many Jews “pray at the Torah of liberalism.” Elizabeth, were your expectations realized by these events the weekend of May 17th?
___________________
The West Speaks.
To comment on this interview, please click here.
To help New English Review continue to publish timely and interesting interviews like this one, please click here.
If you have enjoyed this article and want to read more by Jerry Gordon, please click here.
Jerry Gordon is a also regular contributor to our community blog. To read his entries, please click here.